Racism, Once Again, Rears It’s Ugly Head…..
Written by: Kim Sawyer
Why can’t we, as a country, get past this thing called racism? Come on people! It is 2009 and some of you are still acting like Jim Crow is your best friend! I’ve said it numerous of times – I really hate (and I really try not to use this word) racism and racist attitudes. But the following story is so blatantly racist that I had to write something about it.
The private swim club, Valley Swim Club, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, made racist comments about some minority kids who had previously been given permission to use their facilities. Then, after making the comments, the swim club cancelled the kids swimming privileges, and rejected their membership. The following is what CNN.com is reporting on this travesty:
“The Creative Steps Day Care children — ages kindergarten through seventh grade — went to the Valley Swim Club in Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, on June 29. The day center’s director, Alethea Wright, had contracted to use the club once a week. During their first visit, some children said they heard club members asking why African-American children were there. One of the boys told the Philadelphia Inquirer that a woman at the club said she feared the children “might do something” to her child. Days later, the day care center’s $1,950 check was returned without explanation, Wright said.”
Now, it’s bad enough that this club, and its members, treated these kids this way, but what makes it worse is the president of the club, John Duesler, told two Philadelphia television stations that the children had changed “the complexion” and “atmosphere” of the club. What?!!! How can one change the complexion of a business? This is so stupid! This is classic “trickle-down effect” mentality in action. What do I mean? Well, I am of the opinion that the attitude of the worker bees stem from the attitude of the Queen bee. In this instance, the president of the Valley Swim Club is the Queen Bee and his racist attitude has “trickled-down” to permeate the entire atmosphere of his staff at this club. Not to mention some of the members who bring their own racist views to the table!
I’m not sure what the outcome is going to be for the Valley Swim Club, but I hope justice overtakes racism in this case. I really do! These are just kids who were looking to have fun swimming! Come on!
Tags: Creative Steps Day Care, jim crow in effect in 2009, PA, Philadelphia, racism in america, valley swim club practices racial discrimination
July 11th, 2009 at 1:37 am
as i lap swimmer, i go to the pool for 95% business. i just need a lane. if i get it i am happy, but if it is full of dumb kids, whatever their color, or adults who are just lounging around and taking up space, i get REAL irritated and would also complain or take my business elsewhere. as for some of the members being racist. without a doubt. so what? the US has plenty of racists, does that make it a racist country? it is only something we need to be concerned about if the club itself is making decisions based on race. i read other camps’ contracts have also been canceled by this club that were not minority dominated. does this club have no minority members? unlikely. and when one of these kids drowns because there wasn’t enough lifeguards, is that a hate crime? i think many of the ‘freedom fighters’ here that are so outraged by this club don’t really know the whole story, but feel better about themselves protesting a perceived injustice. protesting against a club that probably is not even racist may be the real injustice here. marching in selma in 1965…. impressive. marching in front of this swim club in 2009… a joke.
July 11th, 2009 at 3:56 am
Just because some white folks make racist comments does not make the organization racist. The swim club has denied the swimming privelege to other day care groups also. Kim, there is not enough evidence to say that this swim club is blatently racist. What do you have, some folks (probably white) making some racist comments about some of the kids. Also, this swim group and other groups were not allowed back. The other groups did not have minority kids. Maybe the swim club, like it has stated does not want any groups of kids. Maybe this issue has nothing to do with race.
Kim, you might want to provide for more systemic evidence of racism from this organization before you label it blatently racist. Be a bit more objective…. Not all actions or behaviors of white folks are done based on skin color….
July 11th, 2009 at 4:05 am
Sure sounds like racism. Looks like racism is alive and well in America. There is a related post at http://iamsoannoyed.com/?page_id=588
July 11th, 2009 at 5:29 am
“Why can’t we, as a country, get past this thing called racism?”
Because Blacks in America won’t allow it. (I will not call black people “African-American,” since none of them are African.) Look, I grew up in the Civil Rights era and was weaned on racial equality, treating all people with dignity, and seeing a person when I look at someone instead of a color. I grew up in the South and remember the integration of our schools, the disappearance of the “Whites Only / Colored Only” signs, black people dining in restaurants along side whites (instead of getting their food at the back door), etc., etc., etc. I also witnessed a remarkable change in the attitudes of white people. We stopped tolerating the hatred of the ignorant rednecks, who despised black people for not other reason that they were black. White people of good conscious stood shoulder-to-shoulder with blacks and demanded that society change. Believe me, we’ve come a long way in the State of Georgia in my 52 years.
I should say that white people have come a long way. Many blacks seem to have become mired in a general loathing of whites and are unconsciously consumed by self-hatred. One can understand older blacks harboring resentment for whites, but not the younger generation, who have the same opportunities as whites. Most of the problems in the black community are self-induced, not the products of the white man “keeping them down.” Those days are long gone in most places. Too many blacks are entrenched in the old reactionary identity politics that dictates that any slight, perceived or real, is racism. Any criticism of the black community is automatically declared racism. The actions of a white person that isn’t exactly what is wanted is racism. “Racism” has become the ad hominem that stops further examination of anything the black activist doesn’t want to face.
Does racism exist in America? You bet it does, especially in the North. (I can’t tell you how many people from the Northeast and Midwest have asked me how I can stand to “live with all these niggers.”). Will racism ever go away? No, it won’t and those who tell us it will are perpetuating a fairy tale that has no sociological or anthropological basis in fact. Races evolved for a reason: genetic variation that makes the species more resilient. They are perpetuated by preferences for our own race and subtle prejudices against others. This cannot be denied or wished away. All of us will always harbor a certain amount of racial prejudice, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not. The trick is to acknowledge it, examine it and not allow it to alter our behavior so that we do things that are hurtful to others. And all of us, especially blacks, need to grow thicker skins and stop reacting to every perceived slight.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:38 am
I am a work at home parent who has taken my daughter to pools during the day. As someone who has actually been in the circumstances – here is what I think happened.
When day care centers, or day camps, bring groups of kids this age to a pool, they typically bring 2 adults and about 30 kids…. and that’s the ratio of adults to kids these children are used to.
The kids whose parent brought them there for the day are in a ratio of more like 1 adult to 3 or 4 kids. In the 4 to 1 ratio, the adult corrects kids who cut in line, or take a toy, etc. It is impossible to do that in the 15 to 1 ration.
So – even if the group had been all white – the dynamic at this pool would have been very different that day than what the members were used to. And that is what the members were complaining about. This club definitly made a mistake in not alerting their members that the daycare would be there at that time.
And, it sounds like some of the members made some rude statements – but – the bottom line is, the 15 to 1 kids do not behave the way the 4 to 1 kids do. And, they truely might “do something” to the 4 to 1 kids. Something like shove, cut in line, grab toys, make a mean comment….. the kind of things that ANY kid might do, except the 4 to 1 kids have someone there correcting them, and stopping them, whereas the 15 to 1 kids are allowed to do those things at the pool, at anywhere else they might go. Its just the nature of the ratio.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:03 am
Aw, poor blackie. Who wants black people in their swimming pools anyway? Nasty. It is a disgusting sight and it completely ruins the atmosphere of even being there. No wonder they were told to leave. DUH. Whites should be allowed to maintain their standards you know.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:18 am
This is a completely overblown story. This was a safety issue.
It is easy to take one or two words out of context and run with it. No one is posting the complete statement of the club owner – only taking a word here and there cited from another story or blog and drawing conclusions.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:19 am
Dusty, you are an ass
July 11th, 2009 at 6:35 am
Why can’t we get past racism?? I’ve got a pretty good answer to this!! probably because the media forces this garbage in your face every morning when you wake up to keep the idea fresh in everyones mind, and if that isn’t enough you have Jesse Jackson fighting over shit that shouldn’t even be fought over. (good example of this is african american nascar drivers a couple years ago, if they don’t want to be nascar drivers because its a boring ass sport then leave them be, i’m white and i hate nascar) These two reasons are the sole reason why racism is still a prominent issue within this country; we’d all be able to move on and get over it if this garbage was never published, and then you have these weasels trying to dig some underlying reason why they closed the swim club and then somehow manage to tie that reason to discrimination.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:44 am
You know it’s always the poor blacks discriminated and always the whites doing it. Wah, Wah. The poor little blacks All over the media. I’m so sick of this BS. The nation has always given in, they riot and loot, give in, threats of boycots, give in, we will change our votes, give in. Life is tough, work for what you want and need stop using my tax dollars.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:53 am
This issue is made to be racism where none exists. If you read the national news feeds on this you will note that two other groups of kids that weren’t black were similarly disinvited prior to this event.
Why isn’t that included front and center? Simple. It shows that the Huntingdon Valley Swim Club wasn’t singling out black kids in their actions.
But it appears that we’d all rather ignore that and blow it into something more salacious. No one can sell news with the headline “Swim Club Sensibly Removes Children from Pool After Member Complaints.”
July 11th, 2009 at 6:59 am
John. I dont think “safety” is really the right word for it. I assume they did not allow their facility to go over its legal capacity, and that they had the legal number of life guards for the number of people allowed into the pool.
As I said above, the reality of the “day care kids are at the pool between 1pm and 3pm” is that their BEHAVIOR is not supervised in the same way that non-daycare kids are. Lifeguards typically are not involved in the behavior of the swimmers – other than to enforce “No Running” and “No Dunking”, which are “pool rules”.
The people there during “day care swimmers are here” time are SAFE – there are life-guards, and they are not “kids left home alone”. But, its crowded, and the kids are allowed to shove, cut in line, yell, etc. Its not “comfortable”.
Some may think my comments are classicist… mentioning “day care kids do this” and “kids w/ at home parents do not”. BUT – having been at pools when the day camp shows up, its just the way it is. Its just a fact of life that 2 daycare workers cannot require the kind of behavior out of 30 kids that 1 stay at home mom requires of her 2 kids and her 2 nieces.
Another example. One such morning, I saw an 8 year old by from the daycamp get stung by a bee. He was just standing there crying…. because neither of the 2 daycare workers noticed him, or, perhaps, because that’s their policy when kids are crying (they would not have been able to see the bee).
I approached him and tried a bit to comfort him. I got a lifeguard from the break-room and asked her which adult was with this child, as he needed to be comforted, and his caregiver needed to know he had been stung. Instead, the life-guard (a college age kid, not used to, nor trained to take care of kids) got a first aid kit and washed the sting, etc. She then let him sit in the break-room so he could calm down in private, and gave him a cup of ice.
Certainly, first aid is part of the job of a life-guard, but consoling the child, and getting him ice, and helping him calm down are not. So, I seriously seriously doubt this pool club did not have the LEGAL number of lifeguards on duty – its just that they came to realize their lifeguards were going to need to do additional tasks, which would then leave them without the proper number doing the NORMAL life guard tasks.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:30 am
As many have already said-It is entirely possible that this was not a case of racism, by the club or the president of the club. It seems some key points keep getting muddled or put at the end of the story to promote negativity and spur debate. Debate is good, but not at the expense of the president of the club-and his family. For example, the club also had relinquished rights to the pool to two other daycares/facilities…daycares that did not have a primarily black population. This should be easy enough to confirm. Secondly, the child may have heard a comment from a member of the club-an opinion the member of the club is free to believe-regardless of how ignorant some of us believe their thinking still is. To swing the pendulum the other way-isn’t it possible the kids just being kids were not as respectful as they could have been to ensure the continued success between the parties? It is my opinion that until we allow for the possibility that things are not as they may seem at first look racism (in either direction) will never be overcome.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:34 am
THERE WERE TWO OTHER GROUPS DENIED BEFORE THE BLACK GROUP! If the black community doesn’t quit crying wolf every time they turn around, things are never going to improve. Not every bad decision in America is driven by racism.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:36 am
It was a Big misunderstanding and poor scheduling that caused the problem at this pool. You can not have over crowding in a swimming pool no matter what people are there. As far as children hearing racist comments being made, I would not believe anything I heard and only half of what I see.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:39 am
I grew up in the South in the 40′s and 50′s. I have watched the changes for 62 years. In my opinon racism is kept alive mostly by black Americans. There are many black Americans that are productive members of society, as are many white Americans. There are many of both races on the other side of the coin that are not productive members of society. This country has come along way in the past 62 years. For the most part those in America today do not care what color or race a person is, but how they conduct themselves in their daily life. When a situation like this occurs the black community plays the race card immediately in order to get what they want, because this is what history has taught them to do. Since segragation laws were put into place this is the avenue the black community uses to propel themselves forward. By playing the race card they can induce guilt into others thereby getting what they want without putting forth any effort of their own to make their lives better. This is probably a situation where to many kids made the difference in what was otherwise a quiet and calm place to relax. It doesn’t make any difference what color these kids were, just the number of them and the noise they can make. Some people don’t like kids period regardless of their color. This has once again been blown way out of proportion by the news media. If the news media wants to report this kind of stuff they should have investigated and interviewed the other daycares that had also been refunded their deposit to use the pool and reported the entire story, not just part of the story.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:00 am
@dave collins – Hi Dave. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. I think your comment has a legitimate point in that as a swimmer, if you are practicing, you don’t want people in your lane. That’s understandable. Here’s why I, along with others, think the incident is (was) racially motivated: if the president of the club had not made the statement that the kids changed the “complexion” of the club, I don’t think this incident would have been perceived as racial. But because he said that, well……
July 11th, 2009 at 8:05 am
@Paul – Hi Paul. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. I agree with you 100% that “Not all actions or behaviors of white folks are done based on skin color…. ” However, as I replied to Dave, the only reason I believe this was racially motivated is because of the president’s comment about those kids changing the “complexion” of the club. That’s crazy! If you don’t want kids at the club, cool. But don’t make mention of it being due to a “complexion” issue. That’s just flat out wrong.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:06 am
@carly – Hi Carly. Welcome to 7DayBuzz.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:06 am
@CynG – I completely agree . . . we belong to a private swim club that had a contract with a daycare one year and even though it brought in extra money, it wasn’t worth the headache and we discontinued it the following year. The pool was over crowded, the daycare kids were not supervised but the teenagers who were more interested in flirting with the lifeguards and I ended up keeping an eye on my own kids plus watching out for the daycare kids who weren’t being properly supervised. There is a definite safety issue without the proper supervision.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:14 am
@Reality – Hi Reality. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. I agree with you on certain points of your comment. Like when you said, “All of us will always harbor a certain amount of racial prejudice, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not. The trick is to acknowledge it, examine it and not allow it to alter our behavior so that we do things that are hurtful to others.” Or when you said, “Does racism exist in America? You bet it does…” And when you especially said, “One can understand older blacks harboring resentment for whites, but not the younger generation, who have the same opportunities as whites.” Those are all excellent points because they are really true. But, there’s a little contradiction from you too. For example, you say that the Black people, here in America, won’t allow the country to get past racism but then you go on to state that all of us will “always harbor a certain amount of racial prejudice…” So, you can see why I feel you’re playing both sides, right?
As I replied to Dave and Paul, had the president of the club not said anything about those kids changing the “complexion” of the club, I don’t think this would have been perceived as racist act. But because he did…… where does the misconception of racism come in?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:15 am
@CynG – Hi CynG. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. I think your comment is very informational. Now, had the club explained it the way you’ve explained it, this would all be moot.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:17 am
@Dusty – Dusty, Dusty. Your words of wisdom are very enlightening and frankly, not surprising. Welcome to 7DayBuzz.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:20 am
@John – Hi John. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. You know what? You’re probably right about this story being overblown. But because we weren’t there to hear exactly what the club owner’s statement was, we have to (and I say this very reluctantly) rely on what the media reports. Therefore, I stand by my initial thought that this incident is racially motivated because the president has been quoted as saying the kids changed the “complexion” of the club. That’s kind of hard to overlook, don’t you think?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:25 am
@jaredj – Hi jaredj. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. Hey, I agree with you that the media is constantly shoving racism or perceived racism down our throats. And Jesse Jackson is, how shall I put this, also an instigator. But think about it like this, if it’s not put out there in the media (perceived or not), don’t you think we (America) would slip back into those days like it was in the South in the 50s and 60s when all sorts of discrimination was occuring but not being televised or reported on? People thought it was okay to have that type of mentality. Now, with the threat of anything being perceived as racist, people are more careful about what they do and say, right? Well, minus the president of the club with his statement about those kids changing the “complexion” of the club. It is possible he didn’t mean it to be racial, but come on….how else can it be perceived?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:28 am
@Ray Sims – Hi Ray. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. Hmmmm, now is it safe for me to assume that you’re looping all Blacks as not working hard and, I paraphase, using your tax dollars? That’s not fair, is it?
July 11th, 2009 at 8:30 am
@John G. – Hi JohnG. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. I did read about two other groups of kids that “disinvited” from this club. But here’s the different – when those kids were “disinvited”, the president didn’t say that those kids were changing the “complexion” of the club. Really, that’s my whole point. If he had not said that, I wouldn’t not posted anything about this incident.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Hey Kim, I hate to burst your bubble, but blacks DO change the complexion of swimming areas, completely ruining the atmosphere. As if this is some great secret. Why are White people not free to feel disgusted by blacks? Why? It is a natural repulsion and it is not going to change anytime soon, so where is the problem? I’m sick of black people crying about how sensitive they are about being black. Who’s problem is that? And are whites really supposed to pretend that they are happy about blacks being there? What fantasy world do you live in? I’m shocked that a few WELL JUSTIFIED comments are enough to make national news. Who cares? Aw, poor blackie, are they not wanted again? BOO freaking HOO!!
July 11th, 2009 at 8:34 am
@gwin – Hi gwin. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. To answer your question, “isn’t it possible the kids just being kids were not as respectful as they could have been to ensure the continued success between the parties?”, ABSOLUTELY! And if that’s the case, they should have been reprimanded, without any racist overtones. Again, let’s not forget the president’s comment about the kids changing the “complexion” of the club. That, in my opinion, is the major issue here.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:55 am
To say the President of the club made a remark about :the complexion of the club” is to misconstrue
the word “complexion”. He was simply referring to the atmosphere with or without many children…white or black.
Stop crying every time something happens to blacks. The SAME THING happened to the white kids…did you complain then? Your skin color is often an issue, unfortunately, but often YOU are the problem.
Instead of RACIST, substitute the word “ATTITUDIST”…referring to bad attitudes and manners.
Invariably when I hear loud, vulgar speech on the streets in New York City, it is coming from Blacks, who use derogatory words for women, and use the “F” word 10 times in a sentence.
Try and bring this to their attention, especially when there are women and children around and see what happens. Racist? NO…take responsibility for how you act and your problems will eventually cease to exist. Who wants to be around foul-mouthed, disrespectful people? I am NOT saying this was the case at the swim club, but I can safely say that the probability of more than one of the kids, or even perhaps their adult caretakers, had a nasty mouth. Sorry…it is the right of respectful, well mannered people to speak up in such situations. The world is not one big rap concert…which in my opinion, and the opinion of my black friends, was a huge step back for blacks gaining respectability in America. I marched on Washington in 1963, not to see the unreal violence in black communities as I do not, but to promote equal opportunity.
President Obama has proved that this opportunity exists, now it is up to the black community to take responsibility and learn how to work WITHIN this society we now have. If Obama could do it, anyone could…no more excuses.
If i belonged to a club and wanted a nice, fairly tranquil atmosphere where I could swim at will and simply relax by the pool, I too would be upset at large groups of children, any children, invading the place that I paid to join.
Sorry folks, people have a right to privacy and peace and quiet. The kids of the members were much better supervised…as usual, and not an issue…different than ANY of the day camp children.
Again, stop blaming racism for legitimate complaints.
As an adult, I do not wish to be in a crowd of children anywhere, not just a pool. That is my right and racism has nothing to do with this opinion.
I know peace and quiet has become a bit foreign in these loud times, but it is still a very important part of life, one that we ALL need to have, every day.
Peace, and love,
JW
July 11th, 2009 at 9:10 am
Its a private club. They can do what they want. Disadvantaged kids? This is America, the greatest nation on earth, no one is disadvantaged. Why don’t those kids parents start their own swim club? Hard to do when dad is not around and mom wont work.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:21 am
How many taxpayer dollars go to support that daycare? I guess hard working adults who want to swim in peace have to step aside for the sake of socialism.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Boy people are sure fast to call racism on something that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
But okay…now, we’ve made an innocent person and organization the “bad guys” and publicized this thing way out of proportion. The senator has sent a latter basically telling the club to open its doors to the other groups.
Okay, so now the organization is going to feel pressured to let everyone in OVER THE CAPACITY THAT THEY CAN SUPPORT or else get labeled as a RACIST organization. Does that make alot of sense to you guys?
So let’s keep looking into the future: let’s say that all those clubs get in now…black, white, asian, hispanic, all of the good ol’ kids. And then, because the club is so full and there are not enough staff to look out for all of these kids, one of them falls and splits their head open.
Then what is going to happen? If it happens to be a black kid, are we going to label that racism too? Come on people. It’s their club, it’s their decision. It had nothing to do with racism, and all the reporters, this blogger, and others have done is make a possibly good guy look bad in front of the nation. Great job guys.
- S
July 11th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Can someone throw a Baby Ruth in the pool and have Bill Murray clean-up afterward?
July 11th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Simply – People believe what they WANT to believe.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:05 am
News flash… White people are disgusted by black people!!! Gee, Who Knew???
July 11th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Quoting James Wagnor
“”"”Invariably when I hear loud, vulgar speech on the streets in New York City, it is coming from Blacks, who use derogatory words for women, and use the “F” word 10 times in a sentence.”"”"”
I am surprised that this is your experience in NYC – since NYC is so diverse – but now that I think it through, it does make sense to me. I live about 2 hours from NYC, about 1 hour from Philly.
When I hear the exact same thing you mentioned, its invariably people will missing teeth, wearing a Tshirt w/full size image of some sports figure, feathed hair (an upgrade from the mullet), and so on. On average, Id estimate the group is mostly white, perhaps with some blacks or other races as well.
When talking about KIDS age 5 to 12, though – I think its just human nature at work. Kids that age HAVE BEEN taught rules about how to behave – BUT – those rules are not enforced while they are at these day camps / daycares. So, kids from ALL walks of life, including those whose family is respectful and has taught them to be so too – still “go crazy” when left with no one to patrol their behavior. Even kids who have a very strong sense of “be respectful” likely fall into the “norm” behavior of the group. If they dont, they will end up shoved, cut in front of in line, etc.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:09 am
@BrettL – Hi Brett. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. Yes, two other groups were denied, but was it because they changed the “complexion” of the environment in the club? That’s the key folks. But, I will say, I agree with you when you say, “Not every bad decision in America is driven by racism. ” Heck, Bush put this country is such a bad place and that definitely was not racism – it was pure stupidity.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:12 am
@Doug – Hi Doug. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. I can admit that this may be a misunderstanding. It could be that the president of the club did not intend to say what he said, it just came out that way. And not only are some Black people are saying it was racially-motivated, but so are White people. Hmmmm……..
July 11th, 2009 at 10:18 am
@Southerner in Nebraska – Hi Southerner in Nebraska. I like your comment. It is well thought out and well, practical and logical. Now, I’m going to quote something you said because I agree with you: “This is probably a situation where to many kids made the difference in what was otherwise a quiet and calm place to relax. It doesn’t make any difference what color these kids were, just the number of them and the noise they can make. Some people don’t like kids period regardless of their color.” Now, if only the club had an excellent PR person to explain away what happened like you just did, you really wouldn’t have heard anything about this in the media. But because people from the club, namely the president of the club, spoke truthfully, from his heart…. Well, consequences bring repercussions and he’s just going to have deal with it.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:18 am
This is a sad incident, but one that I still see all the time. Just travel and spend the night at any hotel here in the south and let two of three black people get into the pool. Nine times out of ten, if there are any white guess in the pool, they will slowly leave. They may try doing it one-by-one, but they will eventually leave. I don’t waste my energy trying to figure out why, I am sure they have a good reason. I just enjoy the pool.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:19 am
@mbekley – Hi mbekley. Welcome to 7DayBuzz.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Well put Paul.
Everyone is always so quick to yell RACISM!
If the club did not cancel and there was an injury due to being understaffed, yes, there would have been another outcry from the same people calling for justice I’m sure.
Use you head before you post Kim.
Thanks
July 11th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Kim, you’re a complete idiot. People like you are the only…ONLY reason why racism still exists in America. Because you and your other trigger-happy hippies are so eager to turn every little thing into a racist issue.
This club was trying to do good for the day care centers in the area. This man opened up his facility but because he was quickly taken advantage of by the inconsiderate day cares by not limiting the number of children to go, he had to do something to protect his liability. Because I’m quite sure if something happened to one of the kids, because it would be a black kid, he would be sued by the ACLU 10 different ways. Of course, the puppets Sharpton and Jackson would have to descend on the area and give a speech demanding a public stoning…I mean, apology. Seems to me like the poor guy is damned if he does and damned if he does not.
I hope all the other centers will see this example set and not offer ANY good natured welcome’s to other minority children groups because they’ll leech off of them and then turn it into racist propaganda when they finally have to be told to leave.
Wait a second though….shouldn’t we be screaming racist also because some non-black/minority day cares were rejected? Holy cow!! Write a blog about them and how the white kid is being repressed by the overpowering…umm..white man. Yeah, let’s see you cover ALL the areas because then and only then will this not be a spun, twisted and weak article about your own ignorance.
Don’t welcome me to this stupid website, you need to be slapped…very hard.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:31 am
@James Wagner – Hi Mr. Wagner. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. You’ve provided some insight for me into this situation. It is very apparent to me that justifications and excuses are being made for the president in his use of the word complexion when discussing these kids. I quote you: “To say the President of the club made a remark about :the complexion of the club” is to misconstrue the word “complexion”. He was simply referring to the atmosphere with or without many children…white or black.” That’s not what he said and I don’t believe that’s what he meant. If he really felt that way about children, in general, what would he have to refer to complexion? He could have said environment, that it was mostly an adult club, etc. So, although I respect your opinion, I can’t agree with it.
Also, to answer your question about if it had happened to white kids, would I complain? Absolutely, simply they are children, no matter their color. Fair is fair.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Kim…love your comment on Bush…he did more damage to this country than all other Presidents combined.
I have a friend who has been a teacher in the NYC school system for 20 years. She is a pretty, blond white lady. I went to visit her class one day (stood outside, but could hear everything). ALL her students are black or Hispanic (I once lived in Mexico). The language and absolute disrespect I heard was beyond belief. One would NOT hear such talk in a predominately white school. Racist?
NO…REALIST? YES…sorry, but it is what it is. Now I am fully aware of all the minority homes without Fathers, and yes, this is a major problem/cause of juvenile crime/attitudes.
However, I am tired of hearing all the crap that minorities are being discriminated against when it it their actions that are PART of the root cause of such discrimination.
As for the “White Trash” mentioned in Philadelphia, I feel for you. Bad attitudes are just that, no matter where they originate. Heck, some poor white kids are trying to be black and live the Gangsta Rap life…I see this here also…not good for anyone.
Manners, respect, consideration, empathy are all foreign words to these groups. Our culture is being polluted by UGLY AMERICAN attitudes, and it is no wonder the rest of the world does not like us (not all of us…)!!!
I have very educated (PhD) Italian friends from South Philly…guess what? No graffiti, no disrespect to women or others…just peace and quiet. (Yes, the mob used to be there, not any longer).
Money does not buy class…education and proper upbringing does. The cycle of poverty is very difficult to break, when drugs, gangs, and bad attitudes are an everyday part of life.
Do I have an answer? It is not for ME to decide, it is the responsibility of minority families to take care of their own…and to this point, they are failing miserably.
I am a nice, respectful person, but if I as much as try to discipline a young black kid on the street, I will hear words I never speak. Why? Where are the parents at 11:00 PM when their young kids are flying down the sidewalks on their bicycles, terrorizing old and young people alike?
Are we to blame for not wanting to be subject to such behavior? Why should we have to put up with such vulgarity from ANY group? (White Trash INCLUDED).
PS…you will not find me visiting friends in the Deep South, where Rednecks rule…to me, bad attitudes are the same no matter where they come from.
Point? I do not care what color or religion one is…I do care how they act. We are not asking for much, just some civility and consideration….something to consider the next time a car comes by with RAP blasting out unbelievable bad language…for all to hear. God forbid someone asks the perpetrator to lower the volume…don’t we know? They have a RIGHT to be rude and disrespectful…they have a Right ot disturb the peace and quiet of others….WRONG.
This country is heading in the wrong direction…if we do not take a stand for civility and respect, those aspects of life will be gone forever.
JW
July 11th, 2009 at 10:33 am
@Dave – Hey Dave. You are right, that because it’s a private club, they can do what they want. But, at least, be diplomatic about it.
Also, how do you know that these kids do not have both parents in the home? Or that both parents work? That’s a big assumption on your part.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:35 am
@CynG – CynG, Talk about reading into something waaaaaaay too much. Your post is a perfect example.
The story is:
Too many people in the pool for the staff to watch. The black group wasn’t even the first ones cancelled, they were just the first to cry racism.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:41 am
@John – John, your opinions are welcome at this site, but demeaning comments will not be tolerated. If you cannot have a conversation without resorting to name calling, don’t respond. Everyone who has responded has been respectful, even if they disagree and that’s great. If you don’t like what I say, disagree and move on.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:43 am
BTW…to interpret the Presidents use of the word “complexion” as referring to skin tone, is an assumption that has no basis in fact. He was referring to the makeup of the club…some kids, to MANY, UNSUPERVISED kids. Quite a change in complexion, wouldn’t you say?
No one would be so stupid to refer to skin tone…his wife even mentioned that they were NOT racist.
Of course, anyone can interpret ANYTHING to have a bad intent.
Sharpton??? Tawana Brawley…Sharpton is an opportunist who make mega bucks from his notoriety.
My EDUCATED, well mannered, and just plain GOOD Black friends think of Sharpton as a clown.
Let’s hear about reality and attitudes…manners, loudness (it seems everyone is getting loud…) disrespect, violence (guns…black on black crime…,) gangs,drugs,etc. If we can solve these issues, this post will be moot.
Everyone, go OUTSIDE and enjoy the day!!! BYE for NOW!!!
JW
July 11th, 2009 at 10:46 am
@James Wagner – Hi Mr. Wagner. Well said. I agree that if we all show each other respect, consideration, empathy, sympathy, etc., we would all be better off. But reality is nothing like that, right?
July 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am
This is typical; to call the entire organization racist because of those few ignorant people is not the answer nor is it fair. I think if anything it’s an excuse to further ones agenda to feel sorry for one’s self. Alethea Wright went into that contract with Valley Swim Club knowing the makeup of the club, knowing the size of the pool, and I pray that she did not knowingly use those children in any way to benefit any agenda of any nature other than one of good will. Mistakes were made, there should have been more work done on both sides of this contract to make sure all sides were represented. The two groups should have worked more closely together to determine guidelines such as the number of children that the current staff could support. The membership of the pool also should have been advised of the situation more affectively. As a member they pay dues to use the facility, and they have right not be overrun by visitors. This is a communication problem within the club and its members. The fact is, this was a case of a good intention that just plain and simple was not thought through, and good intentions went bad, and nothing else. I see there are people lining up with the law suits. And indeed there are those that are going to make this a huge civil rights issue as well. The original good deed from John Duesier has already been totally forgotten. And I add; If someone has to rely on letters from others telling them that they did the right thing, they probably didn’t. John Duesier and Alethea Wright should take a good long look at how each of them handled this ordeal, because your God was watching, and you will be judged accordingly “No bias and No Bull”. You should always remember that. Let us not let the irresponsibility shown in this case make others think twice before trying to do the right thing in the case of all the community pools being shut down, due to budgetary problems.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:48 am
@Big S – Hi Big S. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. No, the club should not go over their capacity limit. But if that’s problem, state that, not that individuals are changing the complexion of the club.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:51 am
@Seven7dogs – Hi Seven7dogs. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. Thank you for sharing your experiences while you travel! People don’t want to admit that stuff like this happens and it is not crying foul!
July 11th, 2009 at 10:53 am
@Kelly – Hi Kelly. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. You’re absolutely right, people definitely believe what they WANT to believe.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:55 am
@Another Paul – Hi Another Paul. Hear me when I tell you that if this would’ve happened to another group of kids, and it was publicized like this incident was, I would label that an injustice too.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Kim, I believe you are assuming that by complexion, the president was referring to the complexion of the skin, There are other definitions for complexion, such as the general character or appearance. Maybe by complexion the president was referreing to the general character being many more kids and the associated noise, activity, etc. Here again you are assuming the most negative aspect of the word ‘complexion’ and that the president was referring to the color of the childrens skin. He might have been referring to the general character or appearance of the number of kids. If you are biased to find racism in every negative event that involves black folks you will surely find it. @Kim Sawyer -
July 11th, 2009 at 10:59 am
@N – Hi N. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. Excellent comment! If only this situation was handled differently, people would not be coming out in droves, taking sides, or for that matter blaming the kids!
July 11th, 2009 at 11:01 am
As far as the pool director’s saying “changed the complextion”
I know I am stretching to give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant nothing about the skin color of the people at the pool. But, I do, for 2 reasons.
1. Ive noticed, whenever Ive had to say something in a public way, where its possible to say something that will offend someone – I do end up tripping over my words and, in the end, choosing the wrong ones. Its like in the back of my mind, Im hearing “dont say anything that will sound racist” – NOT because my comments are motivated at all by racism – ONLY because Im worried about saying something that someone will take the wrong way.
2. The addition of 30 kids age 5 – 12 really does change the LOOK of the place. Besides just the 30 5-12 year olds, there will also be 30 brightly colored beach towels spread out and 30 duffle bags on lthe ground, or on lounge chairs /tables /benches.
So, now there is stuff all over the place, and the pool has a lot of “motion” – balls flying, big splashes, etc. That LOOK is, I suspect, is part of what the pool ownership did not want – the LOOK is one aspect that makes up the overall “atmosphere”, and the overall “enjoyability”.
Ive rented apparentments that had rules about not hanging anything over the railing of the balcony – to protect the LOOK of the appartment complex. Even though the Tinkerbell beach towel hanging over the railing of appt 306, and the Spiderman sleeping bag left to air out over the railing of appt 408 do not actually effect the other renters, they DO give a different LOOK to the overall area.
That LOOK is something the average pool club member or appartment renter might not give thought to, but it is likely part of why they might choose one club over another after visiting. And, I strongly suspect its something that the boards of these kinds of clubs DO give thought to (when deciding wether to add new features, etc).
—–Thus, I really do think it is possible he used the word complexion to mean “how the club looks when you pull up in your car”. And that he really was referring to “towels all over the ground, bags all over the chairs and tables, and lots of activity in the pool” rather than “a lot of black people”.
It would be intersting to see if there is any language in the pool club’s by-laws about the look of the club. Even if the word complexion had not been used by the club’s leadership when discussing how the club should look (writen or just spoken) – I still feel its logical word to use to describe how the club looks. An unfortunate word choice for this situation, since its most often used to describe a person’s skin, but still a logical word to mean “the overall appearance of the area”.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:08 am
@Paul – Hi Paul. Your assumption is correct about how I am defining complexion. I just think it was a very poor choice of words that he used. Now had he explained that there were too many kids and they were not being properly supervised and it was a safety issue, this would not have been an issue for me simply because that makes perfect sense to me. Now, there are others who feel the way I feel about what the president said. So, my opinion on this is not isolated.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:12 am
thank you. Thats why I had to say something on this club director’s side somewhere.
I suspect he, himself, had never been in the situation of being at a pool at the same time as a daycare group. And, now that he is trying to explain himself, he still doesnt have that experience to realize that its about the kids are not supervised in the same way the typical children who belong to the club.
Ive gone to pools with people from the local MOMS Club. Sometimes, this might be 32 people – perhaps 24 kids and 8 women. While there is certainly some effect of having 32 additional people, it is very very different than a daycare group of 30 kids and 2 adults. Both in behavior – AND that atmosphere issue I just mentioned. Its 8 “set ups” of a bag and a pile of towels, rather than 32 individual set-ups, which seem to always include each person spreading out their towel, to indicate “their space”. (totally normal – just different from if its 8 families instead of 32 individuals)
July 11th, 2009 at 11:16 am
@CynG – Hi CynG. Once again, an excellent comment. If the word LOOK was used instead of COMPLEXION, this debate on this blog would not be happening. I can understand, and agree with, the use of that word. Also, I do understand how, when speaking in public, one can worry about not offending anyone. I do it all the time. But isn’t that what’s called, thinking before you speak? And unfortunately, a lot of people do not practice that.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:31 am
No, the point is – The pool’s staff is only meant to be “watching” for drowning, behavior that might lead to drowning, and running on the concrete which might lead to slipping/serious head injury.
Mediating spats between kids, telling kids not to cut in line at the diving board, etc, is NOT the job of the pool’s. The daycare/daycamp groups Ive seen opt to leave that job un-done, which causes the large change in “atmosphere”.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Sure, but you know how some people are always using the biggest word possible, thinking it makes them sound educated and proffessional. LOL.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:42 am
“What do you have, some folks (probably white) making some racist comments about some of the kids….” Then why weren’t those “probably white” folks kicked out of the club for saying racist things???? And why did the club ONLY kick out the Black swim group on that day? If it was an overcrowding issues, shouldn’t they have just stopped operations completely that day instead of disciminating against ONE group? If it was understaffing, why was it understaffed? What was the check of $1900 supposed to go toward if not additional staffing? Why can’t they hire additional staff now? Why can’t they change their hours on those days when the kids’ center come to accomodate them? All of those options would have avoided the seemingly racist actions that this swim club took.
Some of you people defending this club and making excuses for some of the things said (I mean – why isn’t the president of the club fired for making a “bad decision” to overcrowd the pool and then use poor “possibly racist” language when initially interviewed about it). All of you are just defensive because you’re afraid you’ll get accused of something like this one day instead of realizing that we live in a racist society (yes, even if Pres. Obama got elected) and that we’re (especially us white people) capable of making mistakes and we should OWN UP TO THEM! not be defensive and accusatory and racist in response.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:48 am
James, I am a high-school teacher in a similar environment. I know what that young lady is going through. It is repulsive. When you enact discipline you are a racist or the kid just says “F-U” and wants to fight. This is not a racist thing. It is a realist matter. I cannot reach out to people who live in the greatest nation on earth and claim victim status. I grew up poor and mixed. You see, my grandfather was a Native American and my skin color is…well, not white. My grandfather was denied access to grade school because of his dark skin back in 1920′s. Ironically, when he was admitted, his third grade classmate was future President Ronald Reagan. I never heard my grandfather ever scream “racism.” He just worked hard every single day. I was first member of my family to graduate college and only second to graduate high-school. This race whining has to stop. You live in America the greatest nation on earth, a nation I defended as a former US Marine. Every child has opportunity here.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Kim,
You have a good heart I’m sure…but I just launched a slam dunk on you sweetie.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Kim, I too have NAtive AMerican in me…Cherokee. Talk about being treated poorly!
Kudos top you…you are an example of how to do it right!!!
JW
July 11th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Betsy,
Why can’t the club just run its own affairs?
July 11th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
I am so very sick of stories like this,,, no matter what happens, what is done or said, no matter the intention, if it involves blacks not getting their way, or getting something for free, or someone says something offensive, it is racisim. Good God get the hell over it already!!! Maybe you should get off yours lazy asses and earn something instead of expecting everything to be handed to you. There is now a black (well half) president so weather you realize it or not, electing a black (half) president was the biggest blow to minority rights, or as I like to say “rights for the lazy give me free stuff people” that there has ever been!!! For that I say woo hoo!!! Get over your idiotic racist crys, slavery has been over for over a hundred years and you have no idea what it was like anyway so shut the hell up for a change and get over the fact that not everyone wants yours nasty asses around them, go hang wit peeps that want to see you!!! Idiots!
July 11th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
dave, you clearly should not be a teacher. You don’t know anything about what Black people or your ancestors went through in their civil rights struggle. Instead you are an apologist. You need to go back to history class. See People’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn as a starting point. And how did you feel about helping fight people of color in other lands? (because that’s all our country attacks anymore). Sad.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Betsy,
“Why can’t the club just run its own affairs?”
Same reason soup counters couldn’t refuse Black customers like several decades ago, idiot. Then again, I guess you are unhappy there is a Tiger Woods. Because if some of those white golf clubs had chosen to “run its own affairs”, then where would he be? Ridiculous question.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Dylbyrt is a rightwing moron stuck in 1955
Dylbyrt is a rightwing moron stuck in 1955
Dylbyrt is a rightwing moron stuck in 1955
Dylbyrt is a rightwing moron stuck in 1955
Dylbyrt is a rightwing moron stuck in 1955
Dylbyrt is a rightwing moron stuck in 1955
Dylbyrt is a rightwing moron stuck in 1955
Dylbyrt is a rightwing moron stuck in 1955
Dylbyrt is a rightwing moron stuck in 1955
July 11th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Time to put down the race cards people. The other groups of kids were turned away as well. Move on with your life.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
OK…I teach American History and Howard Zinn is pushing an agenda. I cannot tolerate him. He is a former member of the Communist Party in 1930′s and still pushes his agenda from 1960′s onward with more attention. The man went to North Vietnam when my cousin was being shelled at Ke Sahn. I apologize for nothing. Only that I could not do more with the opportunity given to me in this great land. NOW as for your statement that “should not be a teacher” you are way off the mark. I love my kids and you do not know the lengths I have went to in order to help them. My kids still come back after college and tell me that I was a great influence on their life.They thank me for teaching them PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONES OWN ACTIONS. My first lesson to them is to “get out of where you are after graduation.” See America and the world be it through college, military service, or Peace Corps. But DO NOT stay where your at because your children deserve better.As a nation we do “attack” anyone, we respond where threats exist, often with controversy as in Vietnam and Iraq. The fact that we can enjoy this blog is a testament to that. Try to blog in North Korea. As for killing people of color in other lands, I would suggest talking the the folks in Dresden, Germany.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Correction, “do NOT attack.” Teacher gets a B- for that.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
I think the issue has been a little simplified by the media, but what the Swim Club did was wrong.
Here are the basic facts the way I see them there was a contract between the kids and the camp. I am not sure but let’s say for the sake of argument they mentioned that 65 kids where coming. It is the camp responsibility to maintain enough lifeguards to take care of the kids. If the camp did not want a certain number of kids to show up (for example: we don’t accept groups of over 30 kids due to safety reasons). This would have been avoided. If the camp made a bad “deal” aka needs to invest more in safety, then I am sorry but you always runs risk on business.
Whether or not this was racially motivated the camp still acted wrongfully in my humble opinion. What makes this more suspicious is the fact that they sent the money with no explanation. If the group was too big then mention why you don’t want them. However, they opted to say nothing. The other thing that makes me wonder is that there are a bunch of alternatives that they could have attempted (like get them a couple of lifeguards for those kids” create separate lanes for groups in general.
I honestly, don’t know with the fact what was their motivation, but I do think that they have reason to believe that race was a factor due to the comments (or poor words choices). However, I do think that it would be interesting how they take money and then return it without saying anything so you can figure out you were kicked out from pool.
As for people using race to get what they want. This is what I say, they payed to be there. Same as everyone else, they are the victims here. I think they have reason to believe what they said.
Regardless of the reason, the true villain is the person that makes decision to cut contracts when it doesn’t benefit them for any reason. When you break your promise you run the risk of getting bad publicity.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
@Dave – Hey Dave. LOL! I don’t know about a slum dunk, but I’ll admit that every child DOES have an opportunity here in the U.S. However, sometimes the path is much clearer for some children than others, don’t you agree?
July 11th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
To Dave –
Wow defensive aren’t we? What you said about Zinn and your naive belief that our country does not attack other countries tells me all I need to know about you. Most Americans are not even stupid enough to believe that one anymore.
As for what you said about Dresden – you should have read what I wrote more carefully. I said “because that’s all our country attacks ANYMORE.”
I stand by my first judgement – in fact it is DANGEROUS that you are teaching our children and filling their heads with lies. I hope you find your way to the truth one day. Thousands upon thousands of people around the world have died because the truth has been hidden from us, by our schools and by the media (whether they be right wing Fox or supposed “left wing” media like CNN who are merely almost as rightwing but in liberal sheep’s clothing)
July 11th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
@Betsy – Hi Betsy. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. You, too, are making some excellent and valid points. You’re strong in your opinion and that’s good.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Great post Enrique!
July 11th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
@Enrique – Hi Enrique. Welcome to 7DayBuzz. Love, love, love your comment! It is sooooooooooo on point! Thank you!
July 11th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Thanks Kim!
July 11th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Everyone, thank you for a lively debate and for the most part, playing nice!:–) When I wrote this post, I wanted to get conversations going because, I think, that’s one of the ways we can all learn from each other. You’ve provided way more than I expected and I love it! Thank you again!
July 11th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Besty —-What was the check of $1900 supposed to go toward if not additional staffing? Why can’t they hire additional staff now? Why can’t they change their hours on those days when the kids’ center come to accomodate them? All of those options would have avoided the seemingly racist actions that this swim club took.——
I agree with your option of them extending their, perhaps, opening early and having the kids come then – unless they already are open at 8am.
Otherwise, my sincere guess is that the pool DID HAVE enough life guards on duty for the number of people that were there (including the camp kids). My GUESS is that the club director is using the phrase ‘its unsafe”, when he really DID have enough life guards there.
Guessing here again – its that the CLUB feels its unsafe to have that many kids, with so few adults (from the daycare center) to supervise them and patrol their behavior.
As someone (you, perhaps) said, the club and the daycare did not work out the details well enough. Likely because the club just had no experience with what its like to have 30 kids and 2 daycare workers.
Perhaps they knew there would only be 1 daycare worker for every 15 kids, but they did not realize what that actually results in – which is “rowdy behavior”. The pool owners may feel the behavior truely is unsafe. Or, they may just feel it is not what they expected when they set up the deal with the daycare. Unsafe is a nicer way to put it, rather than “rowdy”.
The 1900 is for use of the pool…. which may include having an extra life guard or two on staff at the time.. plus just the general maintance of the pool, grounds, restrooms, etc. (Why do pools charge admission? Same reason they charged the 1900$.)
A lifeguard has no authority to tell kids not to poke other kids, not to call other kids names, etc. I supose they have the authority to moderate them taking their turn in line, and shoving within the pool or right at the edge – but if kids are several feet back, they are none of the life guards business (and, he needs to keep his eyes on the people IN the pool).
Yes – I am doing a lot of suposing here. I wasnt there. but, Ive been to many pools many times when a big group like this comes, and this is what it is always like – 30 kids with 2 adults – which will always result in rowdy behavior. Its just human nature.
July 11th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
the pool should not have accepted the daycare’s money-period.. without telling them rules, regulations, how many lifeguards on duty, swim times, etc. Seems to me the day care paid just like all the other “paid members” . To watch that little 12 year old cry on T.V and to tell the racist comments he had overheard by adults? was heartbreaking. Then for this president of the association to say they “changed the complexion” was idiotic and for sure racist. Complexion meaning skin color, general appearance or character (thief?)- no matter how you look at it – it was a bigot remark. Shame on the club members it was they who should have been told to leave and not return.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
“Duesler earlier in the week told two Philadelphia television stations the children had changed “the complexion” and “atmosphere” of the club”. This quote seems to be what is driving the entire conversation all over the place.
I know from experience that making statements, and even worse writing on blogs, and e-mails. Things get twisted around and around until people see and hear what they want. That’s the trick, learning to write an email, or post a blog that can only be interpreted one way. Or even making a public statement that everyone, with different backgrounds in education will interpret the same way. Good luck with that. It is one of things I have found hardest to deal with in life, whether writing an email, or talking to a group of people who I do not know, or do not communicate on a regular basis with, is how are people going to interpret what I am saying. How can I write this so it can only be read the way I meant it, or how can I say this without someone misunderstanding what I mean.
The best piece of advice I have ever been told, was in reference to e-mails. “Read your e-mail at least two times before you send it, and if there is anything in the message that adds no value, remove it. It can only be taken the wrong way.” I try to practice that, with mixed results.
So some think if the President of the Swim club had worded that one statement differently, there would not be any problem. Put yourself in his shoes. He was asked a question, he gave an answer. Could it have been said better? Maybe, maybe not, do I think he meant it to be as hateful as some are making it out to be? No Way, why would he try to apologize and make things right with a public statement, just to make things worse. So like I said, write or say everything so everyone only interprets it the way you mean it. And I will say again, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
July 11th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
i bet if a poll was taken across the USA – 99% of people would think complexion means – skin tone- so really – GET REAL – there is not too much to misconstrue with the word complexson. AND of course this guy is going to apologize and try to make it right- after it is plastered all over the media. There is really no excuse for what happened.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Absolutely ridiculous! No one in his position would ever be so blatantly racist. Again, a more sophisticated use of the word COMPLEXION indicates “makeup” or “Atmosphere”. NO one was referring to skin tone. Further: COMPLEXION… A viewpoint, inclination, or attitude: a conservative political complexion, general character. Give the person some credit…he is not a complete moron. If he meant skin tone, he would have said so. (pimples or rough skin, sun damage=bad complexion. Sorry, you are just looking for the worst in someone when it does not exist.
Again, the “complexion” of the club was ALSO changed with the other children’s groups in attendence…no racism here either. The place was turned into a zoo…who as an adult, wants to be in a crowded, noisy and possibly dangerous (for the children) place?
As for paying…yes, all the groups paid…and I AM SURE they were given the rules BEFORE they attended. Unfortunately, adults often think they can ignore the rules…and we wonder why the children of today are out of control!!!
It is very different to be a member of a PRIVATE club and to have paid initiation fees and yearly dues, than it is to be a children’s day group and to pay a small charge. Don’t you think the club knew the group was minority before they let them come? Please, enough uneducated and naive guessing here. Logic must be in the forefront…not in the trash.
Kids, and the way adults discipline them are the issue…period.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Sorry to say, but it is blatantly obvious in this forum that if the community pools are underfunded, and close, too bad. The lesson to be learned here is good intentions or not, you are only asking for trouble if you’re open your doors to try to help. My advice to the entire private owned and operated clubs would have to be to keep your doors closed to outside clubs, and operate within your existing guidelines, offer extended membership based on your current set of bylaws only. CYOA, “NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED”
July 11th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
It’s been fun Kim Sawyer, but enough is enough, we will have to wait and see where this one goes. Hopefully, unlike most stories this one will not just go away unanswered. But most do.
N
July 11th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
@N – Hey N. It has been fun! I too hope this one won’t go away unanswered but…… Anyway, thanks for your input.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
Black people sure know how to cry it up for the news networks. That’s for sure. What a pathetic joke, and I’ll bet there were hardly any bad comments that were said at all to them. Why are blacks so insecure and have such thin skin that any whiff of negative comments towards them will bring them to their knees and make them fall completely to pieces? Have they no backbone? Are they so insecure about their appearance they must be treated with kid gloves at all times? Sure seems that way.
However, whenever blacks are abusive and violent towards whites(which happens in MANY cases) everyone looks the other way. It has somehow become blacks God given right to abuse whites but it is never tolerated the other way around. This is why blacks cannot be taken seriously at all. Although I suppose it is white peoples fault for never sticking together(and I mean never!!)
Also, you can bet that white people deal with racial slurs much better than blacks. How often do blacks call whites Honkey’s and crackers and other slurs? All the time. Again, everyone looks the other way. You don’t ever see these pathetic liberal news networks reporting these acts of discrimination do you? Of course not. So why is anyone supposed to give a damn when poor blackie is thrown out of a PRIVATE CLUB? They are not.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:11 am
@ kim
well good to see your little blog took off. with the exception of a few idiots it had good response ( i was worried that i might be the only one ). as for your ‘complexion’ point i think that has been pretty well tackled in the other posts. did this whole thing have a racial basis? to you it is clear, but to myself and many others (looking at the same facts) it is definitely not. and what if we are right and you are accusing this club president of being racist when he is not, because you interpreted his words in a way different than he intended them? how gut-wrenching would that be to you if you were making national headlines as a racist when you were anything but? i think you have a good heart, but need to breath deep and think it through, before going into outrage mode. there are enough things in this world to truly be outraged about.
July 12th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Hey Dave you must be one of the self described idiots that you were refering to. Please excuse yourself from this site
July 12th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
@dave collins – Hi Dave. Yep, the responses were really good – I was pleased with most of them. As far as if I’m right or not, I’m going to see how this all plays out. IF it turns out I was off base in my perception, I’ll admit it via another post.:–)
July 12th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
@Betsy – Wow!! Nice come back there Betsy. FYI,, My step Dad, wonderful man,,, educated and black,,, my half brother,,, educated and half black,,, my son’s God parents,,, educated and black. They have all EARNED everything they have. They are very proud of their heritage and nothing makes them more ashamed than the people I slammed! So please feel free to kiss my lilly whate ass! Oh and by the way, good luck with your stuttering issues!
July 12th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
@Dylbyrt – Hi Dylbyrt. I just re-read your comment from yesterday. Why do you think the election of President Obama is ….”the biggest blow to minority rights?”
July 12th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Why is there this phoney preoccupation as to whether the club president is a racist or not? As if this really matters. What if he was? Would this make him any less of a man? Not one single bit. A very large percentage of white people know how they feel in regards to blacks, which is they must be tolerated. The club president(John Duesler) was acting in the best interests of the club members no doubt, when he described the complexion of the atmosphere as “tainted”, “unsavory” and “contaminated”.
It shouldn’t come as a great shock that most of the club members were appalled and disgusted when this unsightly herd of cattle was allowed into the pool. These members pay a very large sum of money to keep out these undesirables to maintain a wholesome and pleasant environment. And then this outrage?
What are the members paying their good money for if they cannot relax and swim in a satisfactory atmosphere? If anything the club president should be fired for letting them in in the first place. That is the only real issue at hand here.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
@Kim Sawyer – Hi Kim! I am not the best word smith in the world, but in a nut shell, for many years all the black community, and other minorities have talked about is how they have nothing because the white man has held them down. They can’t get an education, they can’t get a good job, they can’t have decent housing,,, now, with the backing of a large share of white America, including myself, there is an educated, well spoken, minority president! What is there excuse now? Obama has now proven that with some hard work, anyone, yes anyone can rise to great things. Hope that explains it! Have a great day Kim!
July 12th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
@Dusty – Dusty (sigh). You know what I give you credit for? Sticking by your beliefs, no matter what. Obviously, I don’t agree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion. Thanks for sharing.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
@Dylbyrt – Ahhhh, now I understand. And this sentiment – I agree with 100%! You have a great day too.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Well you have to admit Kim, that last one I posted was extremely funny. And 100% true too.
July 13th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
@Reality – @Reality – i didn’t read every comment, but i did read “reality’s” comment, and i want to comment on his or her comment.
first of all, thank you for not calling me african american. you are one of the few white or black people that get it. as a black american i can not stand to be called an african american. i almost would rather be called the n word, and “almost” is the key word here. you need to be careful, even when making comments, white people still do not have any kind of clearance to freely use the n word. i don’t know where or why the term “african american” started or came from, but it’s stupid on so many counts.
a. there are white people born in africa that move to america and become citizens, they are true african americans.
b. mankind originated in africa, that means you could put the “african” label in front of every nationality.
c. i’ve talked to a few black africans and they dont like the term african american either, they feel we (black americans), are stealing their heritage.
that’s just a few reasons why i think that term is stupid.
and second of all, reality, you don’t know this, or should i say, you can’t really understand or see it because you’re white, but racism still goes on. white people have come a long way????? you say? yeah, i guess you’re right. slavery is gone and we all can use the same bathrooms and ect……. but man, white people still have a long way to go, i don’t care how far you’ve come. there are some blacks that are just as bad as white folk but if you cant understand why that is, then try this.
get made up as a black person, skin color, hair and all, clothes, get you a big butt put on and what not, then go out into society for a few days and just function normally. after that experiment, come back and give us a report and then tell me how far white people have come.
July 13th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Hey don’t look now but the club president is asking for this ugly little mudpack to come back. Why? Because he missed them? Hardly. He now has to pretend that they are suddenly wanted when not long ago he wouldn’t even touch them with a ten foot pole.
So why the change of heart? Because they all of a sudden became cute , cuddly and irresistable? Or is it because he begrudgingly has to make amends with them by pretending they are valuable & significant members that any club would hate to be without? I’ll bet the rest of the members will be delighted to welcome them back with open arms. GAG!! Here’s hoping they cancel their membership to set an example.
One things for sure, you can bet that white people will ALWAYS give in to black peoples demands. Sickening and Sad.
July 14th, 2009 at 12:33 am
Wow! I have been away from my computer the last couple of days, but I heard about how this post has blown up. What a discussion! I have read so many things in here that are correct and I can’t respond to them all.
1. If someone black acts stupid or says something crazy they should be categorized in a negative manner. However, the same thing can be said for someone who says black people or minorities should stop whining. Those statements show an ignorance that cannot be explained. To walk in someone’s shoes and to be looked at as inferior due to the color of your skin is impossible to explain.
2. Most people would think complexion means the color of skin.
3. I hope everyone has made 7daybuzz.com one of their favorites and will continue to post their opinions.
July 14th, 2009 at 12:35 am
@Dusty – Do you know that some black people wanted 40 acres and a mule? If white people always give in, why didn’t that happen? Can you give some other examples where black people’s demands were met?
July 14th, 2009 at 2:12 am
My comment is in reference as to how things happen today. Any acts of discrimination against blacks today, however slight, are so badly blown out of proportion that it is impossible to feel sorry for them. Blacks, however, are able to throw their weight around in discimination cases against whites with complete freedom and free of consequence. Everyone looks the other way.
Blacks are also free to move in and completely destroy & displace white areas and school systems and whites are just supposed to grin and bear it? I hardly think so. Any area that blacks move into in mass numbers turns into an apocolyptic ghetto. The same can be said for the school systems. Once they are in, there is no getting them out and the area they occupy is forever destroyed with no prospect of ever changing back.. There is absolutely nothing funny about this when this happens, which is all the time. It has become a serious epidemic in America. A sickening infestation that forces whites to pay exorbitant prices just to live away from them and put their kids in proper schools.
This ever increasing allocation of land and resources is given to what is widely considered a non essential group of people. Though many white people won’t openly tell you this, you can bet this is how the majority of them feel. Of course, some may consider this type of turnabout as fair play, but that would probably make up another discussion.
July 14th, 2009 at 6:55 am
@Dusty – It is with some sadness, but 100% certainty, that I say you are a racist! You are what is wrong with America – what is holding America back from reaching new levels. Everyone else who has made comments denying racism thus far should look no further than you to see what black people, and other minorities, are talking about when they say racism is alive and kicking in the old USA.
Since there is a good possibility that my ancestors were here prior to yours – thus making me more American than you – it is my desire that you – and those who feel like you – find yourself a piece of land to call you own. But that nation, uncluttered with blacks and other minorities, should be pure and untouched so you can see what it is like to take something from nothing to the point we are at today. Yes, you should have to create a society out of nothing without the slave labor of blacks, Indians and other nationalities thought to be inferior by your kind.
What people like you fail to realize is there are people who will turn a neighborhood into a “ghetto” and mess up a school system in every race – some “ghettos” are called trailer parks. Ignorance knows no racial boundaries, you are a great example of that. If you work, live or interact with any black people, I only wish you would let them know how you really feel about their kind so they can treat you accordingly. How should you be treated? You should be treated like the bigot you are and everyone who doesn’t look like you should go out of their way to say “Thank you”, “How are you doing today”, “Have a nice day”, etc. for no other reason than to torture your racist butt!
I’m not going to go too deep, but you don’t believe in the bible do you? If so, you need to take a trip to where this all began. But I’m sure you are in denial since you couldn’t possibly have come from those origins.
You have a wonderful and prosperous day Dusty!!!!!!!!!
July 14th, 2009 at 11:39 am
[...] Racism, Once Again, Rears It’s Ugly Head….. [...]
July 14th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Why doesn’t CNN write a story about the black panthers voter intimidation that Obama let off the hook. Wheres the big story on that?
July 14th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Racist? Are you trying to pay me a compliment? It sure sounds that way to me. Of course racism is still alive and kicking. Where have you been? Where did you possibly expect it to go? Into your back pocket? Into thin air? As long as black people remain black white people will always look down on them. The fact that this is the year 2009 means very little. The only thing it means is that white people were not able to keep blacks down forever, otherwise they certainly would have.
Nothing you say changes the fact that black people will always be a detriment to any white society. You think black people are capable of enhancing America to greater levels? What possible levels could you be refering to? What a laugh. I think you sadly and severely overestimate the significance that blacks have to this country. This country has never needed black people for anything. This country was already a world superpower before the civil rights movement ever began. The only thing black people add is a level of stupidity and laziness that must always be tolerated among other races.
Do you think it is sheer coincidence that white people always strive to remain segregated from blacks where they live and go to school? It is always met with great reluctance and sadness to whites when blacks invade their areas. Certainly no joy. There is nothing beneficial to be gained by their arrival. For one thing. White people will always feel intimidated by blacks. Black people have their own special brand of hatred towards whites and admittedly white people are reluctant to deal with them. Black people also hold an advantage where they can never be accused of any type of racism or wrongdoing in the event of a confrontation, whereas white people always will be accused of racism if they try anything at all. I have to give credit to blacks for one thing, they certainly do stick together. White people do not and this puts them at a GREAT disadvantage when dealing with blacks.
Another thing. Black people are an eyesore to whites and are even more repulsive in greater numbers. They are a depressing sight to behold that brings down the atmosphere of any area. The more black people that move in, the greater the desire that white people have to flee. I could really care less who this offends. It is a truth that will always remain so. Property value also plummets with blacks arrival and school systems become a joke. Did you ever notice how high property value is in all white areas? It remains a great investment to buy homes away from blacks. Why would white people want to invest their money anywhere else?
I could go on with more reasons, such as the repulsive epidemic of the mixing of the races, but I feel you get the point. I must stress to you that it means very little to me that you find me appalling and racist. You want to know how white people really feel? I have just laid it out for you. You have yourself a fine day as well.
July 14th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
@Dusty – Dusty, after reading through your comment, here’s what stands out to me the most: “White people will always feel intimidated by blacks.”
I find that soooooooooo interesting. Especially since you feel Whites are superior (e.g. you said White people will always look down on Black people). I’ve interpreted what you’ve said as you (and White people in general) believe Blacks are inconsequential.
Now, here’s where the interesting part comes in: If White people are so superior to Black people , why would they be intimidated by Black people? In other words, how can you fear someone who is beneath you? Think about it…if they are beneath you, what harm could they possibly do to you?
In fact, if your logic was as true as you state it is, then don’t you think it would be the other way around…Black people would fear White people because of the supposed superiority?
Now, in actuality, we know that White people are not superior – that’s just wishful thinking on your part. Also, based on your last comment, all you’ve really disclosed is how illogical your way of thinking is.
July 14th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
@Eileen – Hi Eileen. Since you say CNN is not reporting it, how do you know about it? Which news affiliate is reporting it? Do you have a link to a story about this — it doesn’t have to be CNN – it could be FOXNEWS, which we all know is anti-Obama.
July 14th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Kim,
Are you telling me that is the only thing that stood out to you? Is this the only thing you care to dispute? I guess you must agree with everything else I had to say. Well, that’s because I suppose everything I just said everyone already knew anyway, including yourself. I just felt good spelling it all out in case you had any misunderstandings. You have obviously picked out the only thing that appeals to you and makes you feel better about yourself. So lets discuss. I have already explained this to you if you had been paying attention. White people do not stick together. Black people do. Blacks confront whites in large numbers all the time because they have no fear of any charges of crime or racism being brought up against them. Instead, they receive a pity party and a pat on the back. Whites are very relucant to deal them because they know charges of racism will be brought up immediately against them. This serves as a great disadvantage. The law has no sympathy for whites in any case involving blacks against whites. Yet another instance where blacks receive a free ride. Blacks love to gang up on whites and they do so again and again. Why would whites want to even live with these dispicable animals? It is not far fetched to say that many white people view many black people as being sub human and monkey like. Especially the younger generation who carry a sickening anti establishment and repulsive hip hop attitude. Blacks do not even want to live among themselves which is why they are always seeking to move into white areas. Blacks must think whites are beautiful because they are always so eager to move in with them. If only black people craved segregation as much as white people did, what a wonderful country this would be.
July 15th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Anyone hear any news if this sad little mudpack accepted that warm and heartfelt invitation back to the Valley Swim Club? Everyone knows their presence is badly needed to liven up the “atmosphere”.
July 17th, 2009 at 11:45 am
I have just taken about an hour plus and read every comment from the top to the bottom. My neck, shoulders and back all hurt with tension and I now need a massage! That was riveting reading! I was literally sitting on the edge of my seat. Kim I commend you on keeping your composure (Dusty), sticking to your guns and saying you will admit you’re wrong if some other truth comes out to indicate the president didn’t mean it the way it sounded. I also congratulations on a 116 comment post! From one blogger to another (kleverkathy.com
), way to go! High five!
Other than that, wow…
I will say, when I looked up the word complexion, the first thing that popped up was:
Skin type: the quality and color of the skin, especially of the face.
July 17th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
@Kathy Curry – Thanks Kathy. This turned out to be an excellent debate. And most people would initially think of skin type when someone says complexion, but…..there will always be excuses and justifications.:–)
July 17th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Again, this complexion issue. When one talks about THEIR complexion, they are referring to smoothness, acne (complexion correcting creams and medications),color variations on one’s face, (NOT variations pertaining to RACE..not black vs white), blemishes, wrinkles, spots, etc.
Example: My complexion broke out after I was in the sun without sunscreen. I have a bad complexion because of cigarettes, etc.
Complexion does NOT indicate race…it is used, in this meaning, for mostly cosmetic purposed…especially at the cosmetics section of any department store.
If anyone is interpreting this as a racial comment, then you are always going to see racism when it is not there. You are simply looking for a fight…too bad.
“COMPLEXION” as used by the club Pres., was a word selection obviously a bit over most of your heads, as he was referring to “atmosphere, feel, etc.”
“This gives the project a whole new complexion…”
Again…only a moron would be using the word in a racist manner, and even then, the usage would not be entirely appropriate.
Intent is the issue here…the Pres and his wife are not racists. Other children’s groups were similarly dismissed from using the pool…
Stop crying and whinning whenever ANYTHING happens in a black and white issue.
Why are you not complaining over the intense racism of your “Gangsta Rap” morons who degrade women, whites, the police, etc.??? Where is your outcry?
ATTITUDE is the key, and some, in fact MANY young black today have unbelievably bad attitudes.
Where is your criticism for these hoods?
This club knew the group was black BEFORE they invited them…however, members did not know HOW MANY children would be in attendance, and how many ADULT supervisors would be present as well.
The club can do whatever it wants…a membership club is private…people pay money for a tranquil atmosphere…to change the COMPLEXION of that atmosphere, and have screaming and running children OF ANY COLOR, en mass, would not be to my liking either.
Yes, the club had some children as members…it is an issue of quantity.
I must be a childrenist…or is it really an attitudenist?
To be accepted in mainstream society we have certain rules and considerations which must be adhered to. If more people acted like kind, caring humans, without chips on their shoulder, our world would be a better place, no?
Peace,
JW
July 17th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Hey James. There are soooo many words with various meanings and they are all legitimate meanings however, typically, words have a primary meaning, especially when spoken and not in written form. Although the president may have meant exactly what you are hoping he meant (it’s only hope because you don’t really know either), when one says complexion, I think most will assume they are referring to skin color and texture all in one.
I may not be the most intelligent person, but you have to go way over my head to loose me! I get it. I’m not sure you want to.
And yes! If more people acted like kind, caring humans, without chips on their shoulder, our world would be a better place! Without a dobut!
July 17th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Sorry Kim…do not buy it. The pres. is not a foll, and I am sure he was not that stupid.
I know of no one who uses COMPLEXION to designate skin color. Rather it is used to designate skin quality. When someone is referring to color, they say “COLOR”.
Ruddy complexion, rough complexion, wrinkled complexion, smooth complexion…etc. NONE of these common uses refers to race.
Neither does: “The issue has a new complexion, and the old adages no longer apply”.
Do you know anyone uses “complexion” when talking about blacks or whites? I do not. Nor do my BLACK friends, who consider this issue folly.
Perhaps we should get Sharpton and Jackson involved to really lose sight of facts and intent…perhaps they will bring Tawana Brawley along for support.
July 17th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Hey James, Kathy here. I am the one who made the last comment. I am black and I have been around people – black and white – who do use complexion in reference to color.
July 17th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
@James Wagner – Hi Mr. Wagner. Welcome back. I know, I know, it’s hard to believe, but some people think that by using a word in a certain way, people may not “pick up” on what they actually mean. I think this is the case for the president. You’re sure he’s not that stupid, I’m sure he’s just that stupid, but now his stupidity has brought on extreme scrutiny, hence, the backtracking and the explanation of what he “really” meant. Now, having said that…..
For the record, I am not someone who easily cries racism. I try my best to look for the best in any situation. I just don’t think I’m wrong on this one. And in case you’re wondering, I am a Black woman with a Bachelor’s in IT and Master’s in Business Administration. I would like to think I know the difference between “perceived” racism and “actual” racism. Does that make sense?
July 17th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Hi Kim and Kathy!
Would not the president have used a much stronger word if he was truly racist?
As for the children…perhaps you would care to explain why the WHITE kids were dissed as well?
The problem is that the very existence of a different skin TONE (not complexion…) causes uproar whenever problems arise.
I feel as much racism directed against my person as some black friends do against themselves.
Am I to cry? No…
What happened here was multiple invasions of TOO MANY KIDS, and unfortunately, when one of these groups happened to be black, everything was twisted to suit the needs of whoever wanted to get their name in the paper.
You of all people, should know that the truth is often lost in the “details”, of which, in themselves, one can not depend on too heavily.
Yes, these kids were given the boot…so where the others. So what? Was it WHITE RACISM when the first groups were dismissed? Did ANYONE cry then? Who came to the defense of the white children?
As far as black children being scarred for life because of some club members SUPPOSED comments…prove it happened. Prove this was situation was not manipulated by the supervisors.
What a kid heard? When was a child ever a credible witness? In fact, eyewitness testimony is frequently dismissed in courts.
If the Pres. came out and said something about blacks, then you would have a case. I feel he and his wife are good people and are not racist.
What some member SUPPOSEDLY said should not be the spark that blows this situation out of proportion
That said, I feel sorry for ALL the kids…summer without swimming sucks, to put it mildly.
I did not have a pool or Ocean to swim in when I was a kid…I am white and grew up in Northern Westchester County, NY…small town.
We had black schoolmates and had absolutely no problems. In fact, one of my high school friends and I, along with his wife Rene Marie, who was singing at the Jazz in Lincoln Center venue, saw each other for the first time since 1966!!!!! He and his wife now live in Denver.
Now, excuse me while I get FUNKY!!!!!
Stop hating…stop thinking others are hating…stop before you get nasty!!!!!
JW
July 17th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
@James Wagner – Not FUNKY, Mr. Wagner!:–) Don’t do it:–)
July 17th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I am known as the WHITE MAN THAT CAN DANCE…started when I was young and Smokey sang Mickey’s Monkey, and Marvin sang Witness…and Elvis sang Stuck on You…all had a great beat…then along came the Isley’s with SHOUT…and the rest is history.
My close friends, who still live in Albany, NY, and who were college buds of mine, call my Jay Dub…their two girls have skin color as white as mine…interesting , no?
Another friend is from Barbados, and he is REPUBLICAN!!!! I am independent…no name for me.
i am still FUNKAFIED…(George Clinton)…and of course, the old JB stuff…feets don’t fail me now!!!! Let me put this hamburger down…I just gotta dance!!!!
If we all knew how to dance and let go, things would be a lot less stressful…
JayDub
July 17th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
@James Wagner – Jay Dub?!!!! LOL! For some reason, I just can’t picture you being a “Jay Dub.” Too funny…..
Now, what do you think about my post on President Obama basically telling Black people to change their attitudes and stop making excuses? You know, it’s okay if you comment on that post too.:–) I’m sure your Black friends, as well as you, are in agreement with what he said. For the record, so am I.
July 17th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Kim…I did not see your new post but I did read his speech. My friend Victor from Barbados would approve. So do I. However…the same goes for EVERYONE…not just blacks. Hispanics, Native Americans, whites…we ALL have to take responsibility for our future and the future of our planet.
Education…not THE answer, but part of it. Attitude change…less distrust, more dialogue, more empathy…all contribute to a better society.
As for the bastards on Wall Street…F’ em…they are truly pigs (not all of course) who think they are ENTITLED to mega $$$, while out teachers, firemen, police, etc., are overworked and underpaid.
The Pres. is a very intelligent (Michelle as well) man and I truly hope he can make this mess work.
Jay Dub….a variation of JW…was my nickname from Juno. They still call me this, as do their daughters, light years later.
Oh well…
July 17th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Kim…I forgot…
You cannot (understandably) decipher the difference between PERCEIVED and ACTUAL racism simply because you have a from a background that has seen REAL racism, and therefore, all acts, whether real or perceived, will seem the same. You will (I could be wrong) always be defensive in your response, simply because of your experiences in the past (an assumption for sure, but probably within the realm of reason).
In your first post you indicated that CNN reported…did they identify the person who supposedly made the remarks? Who was the child that supposedly heard a club member? All these “FACTS” are, in fact, just rumors, and rumors can get wildly out of hand. Plus, the existence of a few childish adults does not a racist club make.
Hell, there are clubs that whites cannot go to…Jewish, Super WASP, etc. Try to get into the NY Athletic Club…good luck unless you know the “Right” people, and have the “Right” size bank account, and live in the “Right” area (Park Ave., Fifth Ave., etc.).
Not easy being a poor white person either…going hungry sucks…for everyone.
Jay Dub
July 17th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
@James Wagner – So what you’re basically saying is my judgement, as it relates to racism, is clouded. Gotta disagree with you on that. I truly believe this incident was racial, in nature. That’s it.
Now, to compare being a poor white person to a Black person, is well, asinine and here’s why I say that. A poor white person could win the lottery and become filty rich. Now that this white person has money, he/she could now afford to live in the “right area, have the “right” size bank accoiunt and get to know the “right”people. A Black person CANNOT change his/her color. So, to some, no matter how much money they have, because of their color, they will NEVER have the “right” size bank account or be able to live in the “right” area. Do you see the difference?
July 17th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Understood except for…President OBama…wrong color according to your logic…now lives in the best address in the world!!!!
Blacks live on Fifth Avenue, Park Avenue, anywhere in town…if they are of the correct stature…judged just like whites.
Gotta go…lightening storm!
July 18th, 2009 at 12:42 am
J Dub,
I don’t have a problem calling you that because to some people I’m known as “Tomegun” or “Gunz.” Kim is now rolling her eyes, but she knows it is true.
I would like to say I’m proud of the people, with a few exceptions, who have come here to make comments about this incident. I’m also proud of Kim. She holds things down nicely when I’m not available; sometimes I think I should be unavailable more often!
I offer the following:
1. Regardless of your color, would you have said things the same way or similar? Most of the white people I know don’t have to go back and change how they say something. Keep in mind, I’m coming from a military background where we are trained on zero tolerance when it comes to racial, sexual or cultural bias.
2. Kathy is playing a Jedi mind trick by downplaying her intelligence. You just don’t go through life communicating successfully with people of different backgrounds and getting a college degree if you are a dummy.
3. J Dub, tell us your thoughts concerning Dusty.
July 18th, 2009 at 3:58 am
Regarding the word COMPLEXION in reference to SKIN COLOR….
I think Kathy presented a good insight, but herein lies a trap that we all can fall into — the FIRST definition of complexion is a physical one in reference to the skin. There are second, third, and fourth definitions…soooo…
Which one was meant?
All too many times, it’s either too difficult to determine, or can’t be determined, so we will select the definition that supports our point of view — the one that will help us win the argument. I think we can all remember those tired TV scripts where someone is on the witness stand, confronted with themselves being quoted as saying “I could’ve killed him!” and having an expression of frustration being turned into an intent to murder.
Cheesy example — but hopefully leads to some thought.
July 18th, 2009 at 4:20 am
Hey John G. Welcome back. Okay, I can see your point. That makes sense to me. But, I think most people look at the FIRST definition as being the most, for lack of better word, definitive one. Does that make sense? It’s like when you do a search on google, the first one in your list of results is basically considered to be the most relevant, right?
July 18th, 2009 at 4:22 am
@James Wagner – Hi Mr. Wagner. You missed it when I said “to some.” Meaning, there are those White people who feel that no matter how much money a Black person has, they will NEVER be welcomed into those elite circles.
July 18th, 2009 at 4:24 am
Plus, Ive always used complexion to mean the quality of the skin. Seal and Brian Adams both have bad complexions… nothing to do with the color, only the bumpiness. Mostly, it makes me think of pimples vs lack of pimples. so, again, when a big group of daycare kids comes to the pool…. there a bunch of beach towels spread out, a bunch of bags sitting in a pile, etc, messing up the complexion of the pool area.
If the guy would have said “It really changed the look of our pool area” – that too would have been taken to mean “cause now theres lots of black people here”.
July 18th, 2009 at 4:32 am
BTW, I was at a municipal pool earlier this week. The daycare group was all white, I recognized some from my dds school (in a middle to upper middle class area). These kids were age 7,8 and 9, so there werent really behavior problems – BUT – its still irritating….. they are made to follow certain routines… they all set themselves up with the spread out towels…. there is a time when they all have to get out of the pool for X amount of time (I have NO IDEA why, but that’s their procedure). During that time, the boys take up what is actually the best shaded place for parents trying to keep an eye on kids in the pool to be.
They are not doing anything WRONG, but there is a lot of yelling (Get it shane, get it), and they whiz right by if their ball gets away from them, etc etc.
I saw a woman set up bags and pool noodles all around her towel, to keep the kids from knocking into her.
I stepped over to the fence to talk on the phone. Apparently, I was standing right where these kids are made to line up each day when its time to go home. Guess what these (age 7,8,9 year old) kids did? They just made the line right around where I was!!! Its so much procedure, they just follow the procedure. Not making allowances for the fact that someone is already in that spot. (yes, I moved once I realized they were mobbing me)
Another group was playing hackysack RIGHT in front of the entryway into the “building” w/ restrooms. Again, not doing anything actually wrong, but still irritating to have to walk around them and hope the ball didnt get away while trying top get into the building. (They were not totally blocking it or anything, and that IS the area with biggest sidewalk space – but its a lot of that kind of stuff)
July 18th, 2009 at 5:36 am
Gunz…(used to have a girlfriend…never mind…) thanks for your service to the USA! Re. Kathy: I never underestimate anyone’s intelligence…I do take note of their (not Kathy’s) attitude though.
I know a lot of intelligent asses…programming.
Dusty?…I would like to think he is being the Devil’s advocate. However, if I am wrong, he has a lot of anger built up…for a reason that I do not know.
CynG, John G (related?)…I agree 100%… For my Black male friends: Razor Bump from shaving…that is an example of bad complexion…it is not referring to color…hell, I had the same problem! StrideX COMPLEXION PADS…remember? For BAD COMPLEXION…not for wj]hite vs colorful skin.
let me now answer Gunz’s question on doing things differently:
If I was the President of the swim club…(that would be one party place at night…I digress)…I would have vetted the situation with ALL the swim clubs thoroughly including calling a meeting with ALL the club members BEFORE making any decisions to allow ANY children’s groups to use the facilities. The ,members pay good $$$ I assume, so they should be involved in making decisions that will change the complexion…oops, atmosphere, or ENJOYMENT of their club.
I would not have spoken the same way as the club Pres. I would never have had to be put in that situation in the first place. That said…if I was inept, and had no idea as to the amount of kids and supervision coming, and was surprised by their arrival, I would have let them stay for that day.
As for the President of the club…he, no doubt, was responsible to his constituency…they pay his salary, they keep the club operating…he was between a rock and a hard place.
On one side he did not do his homework (or, if he did, the group simply did not tell him the truth as to their size and supervision)…on the other side, he had to deal with disappointed kids…not a good Karma move, for sure.
CynG…that day at the pool must have been VERY relaxing…heh heh heh.
I do not dislike children, I have been told I was once one myself…however, and it goes back to behavior and discipline…I do not wish to be around many running, splashing, screaming children when I am trying to simply relax in a relatively quiet environment. I know kids need to be kids…(I was never a screamer…still am not a loud person, have been taught to respect the quiet) but members of a swim club should not have to deal with the problem of someone’s else’s children.
Supervision? We all know how bad that can be…hell, some PARENTS do not supervise their kids properly, how can we expect chaperons to do a better job?
Nice day here in NYC…my friends were caught in a thunderstorm in Central Park last night…along with 100,000 others who were watching the NY Philharmonic concert…I left just before the rain.
Peace, Love and Wellness.
Jay Dub OR James (NO MR. WAGNER PLEASE!!!!)
July 18th, 2009 at 8:53 am
@James Wagner – Jay Dub (it’s going to take all in me to call you that), I will not call you Mr. Wagner any more. I’m sure you know it was just a sign of respect.
BTW, I like you your sense of humor.
July 18th, 2009 at 8:55 am
@CynG – Hi CynG. Welcome back. Yeah, I bet that day at the pool was crazy. If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that if there are a lot of kids at a pool, no matter the color of their skin, it’s going to be crazy. I can understand that.
July 18th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Kim…absolutely no problem…just want to be less formal here. Actually James Christopher Jonathan Charles Wilson Harrington Wagner ll will do just fine…or NOT!!
Jay Dub…I should let you speak with Juno (nickname for my college friend, James Ford) who gave me the moniker.
Kim…think of the reason why “Active ADULT” communities exist…not because they hate kids of ANY color, simply because they paid their dues and now want some peace and quiet…along with security.
JJJJJJJJJJWWWWW
July 18th, 2009 at 9:05 am
OMG! LOL!!! You DO NOT have that many names! LOL!
Okay, I agree with you about “Active ADULT” communities, but did the swim club state that it was an “Active Adult” community? Or is just a swim club, with mostly adult members? There’s a difference.
July 18th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Tee hee…no I do not have that many names…actually I have MORE…of course they cannot be printed here!!!
Agreed about the swim club…just trying to explain the mindset of some adults…TOO MANY children just does not work for them.
The President of the Club was not exactly a Rhodes Scholar, nor a good administrator…but I really do not feel he or his wife are racist.
Let me ask you this, as supposedly one of the club members (and this has NOT been verified) mentioned they were afraid that one of the new children would hurt her child:
It is an unfortunate fact that in today’s world black-on-black crime is soaring, and the majority of inmates in prison happen to be of color (incarcerated right or wrong…).
Ghettos are mostly of color…where violence is unfortunately part of everyday life. Hell, I would NOT walk through parts of Brooklyn or Harlem alone at night…neither would any of my black buds.
That said, we must re-examine the mindset of the person who made the comment…racist or just reacting to fact on today’s society?
Some black kids are taught physical confrontation at an early age because of what happens in their home and on the streets. Not good for anyone, for sure…but it is happening every day.
As someone who has seen society improve and go downhill again (crack did not help…) I feel so frustrated that this problem is still around. In college (late 60′s) Juno and I knew some Black Panthers, SDS members, Weathermen, etc., and wel all thought we were part of a great change.
Well….yes, there was SOME change…the Viet Nam war was stopped…freer speech was obtained, as was a more open university policy in some schools, (I still grieve for the Kent State students shot down on their way to class, books in hand…Four Dead in Ohio)…as well as every soldier killed in Nam…but what happened to Black Power? Has it been supplanted by Black Thugs
(Gangsta Rap) emulating the WORST of white society (conspicuous consumption, arrogance, bad manners, loudness, etc.)?
It is no wonder that these fools set back racial relations 40 years…
Any answers to this problem, send your info to the real Pres. I am have no solution any more.
Are we to accept this as the new order? Is civility and respect (real respect based on mutual trust, not fear) a thing of the past?
A simple walk on the sidewalks on NYC will be an enlightening example for anyone who does not understand my examples…one sees underlying anger and confrontational (violent) attitude.
Everyone seems to have a chip on their shoulder. No one smiles…except in the park, of course…or AFTER they go shopping…that lasts 20 minutes, at best.
What to do?
JklmnopqrstuvW
July 18th, 2009 at 10:34 am
@James Wagner – I think we can always assume we know what someone meant. But, by doing this, we’re either giving that person the benefit of the doubt in assuming they didn’t really mean what they said, or we’re giving them a way out of being responsible for saying something rude, inappropriate, or for that matter, inexcusable. You know what I mean?
So, if people just say what they mean and mean what they say, assumptions would be unnecessary.
Now, to address the issues in inner cities, etc. I really don’t have an answer for that and I won’t pretend to have one. I don’t think that civility and respect is a thing of the past. They may happen much less than what we like, but they’re still there. I think a lot more people practice them than what we realize. Now, I’m all the way on the west coast and I’ve never been to NYC. I hear all sorts of things about New Yorkers (how rude, mean, disrespectful, etc.) they are, but I have a friend who’s from Brooklyn (if I’m not mistaken) and she’s great! I know I can’t judge all New Yorkers by her, but she’s the example that I have thus far, so……
The only answer I have for your “What to do?” question is: Do right by people no matter what, treat people the way you want to be treated and well, LIVE YOUR LIFE!
July 18th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
The things Im refering to come from a DAYCARE group of kids (or Daycamp, whatever). The same number of kids, coming and going in groups of 2-4 along with an adult just does not make for the same senerio as …
-Bus pulls up in front of single entrance to facility.
-Kids get out of bus, and form a single file line in front of facility
-2-3 Adults remind them where to stand, single file, etc.
-Long line of kids walks into facility, to a particular spot, chosen on the spot by one of the adults
-Big group of kids jockey for posistion… who is going to be next to who, who doesnt have enough room for their towel…. thats mine… dont touch me… etc
-Kids go in pool. (skip what goes on during this part)
-The 2-3 adults sound a wistle, or call out “BREAK TIME”.
-The kids all get out of the pool at once and walk over to the area theyve staked out.
-Kids sit on towels and 1 adult passes out juice boxes and pack of goldfish
etc
etc
etc
There is a lot of “get in formation”.
I storngly suspect the club president just didnt think of any of these things, AND, the daycare director did not think to MENTION any of these things, because she knows it so well, it seems to her like everyone would know the kids will be lining up several times, staking out an area, taking a scheduled break out of the pool for x amount of time,
If the kids walked in, jumped in the pool, and then left – I doubt even the most stick-up-her-butt club member wouldnt have cared that much. She would have still made comments about how crowded the pool was, and how noisy it was… but it wouldnt effect her ability to sit and read a book while keeping an eye on her kids.
Its all the time when the kids are NOT in the pool that is really what makes it “a totally different atmosphere”
July 18th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
She may well have been concerned about the fact that the kids were black. BUT – again – from the DAYCARE GROUPS I have seen at pools, she would have said the same thing, even if all the kids were white.
Its generally about 30 kids and 2 adults to watch them….. That means IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to moderate the kids behavior in the way 1 adult would for 2 or 3 kids.
THUS, these DAYCARE KIDS are allowed to do things like push each other, cut in line, wrestle balls from each other, jump in right next to where a 2 year old is , etc It just makes for “rowdier” kids. And thus probably makes some moms with the youngest kids get out…. AND, say “I was afraid one of those kids with that group was going to hurt my son”.
Its a valid fear, honestly. rowdy ‘bigger kids” not being told to leave some space for the littler ones. (and the bigger kids just do not think about such things a lot of the time)
July 18th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
@CynG – Wouldn’t that mean giving a blow-by-blow account of what the kids “might” do while at the club, though? I mean, at the end of the day, with kids, you gotta know there’s going to be some form of mayhem, regardless if it’s daycare, daycamp, etc., right? I say all of that to say, the club president should’ve known what they (the club) were getting into by accepting kids period, right?
July 18th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
CynG I agree 100% with your examples. This is the way it is…
JW
July 18th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
KIM…thus my take on the lack of vetting or ability to administrate by the club pres. Either he was told bull by the various daycare groups (let us not forget that more than one group was dismissed) or he is inept.
Which brings up another point: If other groups were dismissed as well, what the hell was he thinking when he agreed to letting the last group use the pool? Did he not learn from TWO previous failures?
DUH!!!!!!!?????
OR…and I am now giving him a lot of credit…did he simply feel bad for the black children, either simply beacuse of their situation, or because he felt guilty letting the other two children’s groups go?
Anything is possible…including all of the above.
Kim…agreed that good people can be found everywhere…but…if one simply took an informal, and for their safety, a SILENT poll in NYC, one would see that people ARE getting nastier and less civilized. I have lived here forever and have seen what is going on…
Not just here…try Miami…Philly, DC…everywhere a selfish, discourteous, violent and confrontational attitude is becoming part of society. No wonder “Park Avenue” types make it very difficult to get into their buildings…they want civility…peace and quiet…they want to feel safe. So would I…so do we all.
Yes, live and let live…but letting nasty people remain nasty is hard for good people to accept.
West Coast huh? Nice…where do you live? Never had the pleasure of visiting California…would probably love Northern Cal…Monterey, Carmel, etc. Beautiful.
J W
July 18th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I do not blame the guy for not knowing what its going to be like when a DayCare group comes to a pool. I assume he had never had reason to be in that position, so he just didn’t know. I figure he did meet with the rest of the “board” of the club, and they decided it was a good idea. Probably none of them thought of the things Ive mentioned.
Its just stuff that you do not know you don’t know.
Some of it is stuff that he/the board may have thought of (or thought to ask about) if they had really sat and thought through what it would be like to have a group come. BUT, I totally understand them not realizing they needed to do that.
Ive never seen this facility, so I dont know how much space there is fenced in along with the pool. I f there is a lot of space, then one thing the club could have done – AFTER the first day and seeing how it went – would be to designate where they want the kids to spread out their towels, and where they want them to line up, and any areas where they do not want them to play while they are not in the pool.
But – even doing that sounds kind of classist or rude or whatever. “YOU cannot come into THIS area” – sounds rude. BUT – from what I see at the pool Ive been going to this past week……. things really COULD be so much better FOR EVERYONE if the daycare group would set themselves up in a different area. The adults there with their own kids want/NEED to be in that area, so they can be in the shade and see their kid in the pool, and, not be facing directly into the sun (while looking at the pool).
But, there IS another (larger!) shaded area where the kids could play. Its just that no one told them to use that section. (they are using the closest to the entrance section… but its not like its all that far to go to the other side of the pool).
If the kids would use that area instead – they could have more room, AND, they could run all they wanted without there being other people in the area.
I, myself, tried moving to that area. But, the way the land slopes, its hard to see the kids in the pool, AND, the sun is coming at the wrong angle for wanting to read or write or whatever. (which is why no one else was over there) But the kids are wanting to play ball.
July 18th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
@James Wagner – Just reading/watching the news, you can see how people are getting crazier, nastier, meaner, etc.
JayDub, I think you’re giving the club pres a lot of credit…..I also think CynG is making a good argument for the club too.
We’re in Vegas, where it was 113 yesterday!
July 18th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
113 !!!!! You goota be kidding…I know, I know…it is a DRY 113!!! A desert was NOT meant for human habitation!!!
Cyn G: ” I do not blame the guy for not knowing what its going to be like when a DayCare group comes to a pool. I assume he had never had reason to be in that position, so he just didn’t know. I figure he did meet with the rest of the “board” of the club, and they decided it was a good idea. Probably none of them thought of the things Ive mentioned”.
The guy went through this TWICE before, and you DON’T BLAME HIM???. Who the hell is responsible? Santa Claus? Tooth Fairy? This is NOT rocket science!!! Good grief…why was this so difficult? If this bozo had been working at a company in NYC he would have been fired long ago. He, and his members should have been smart enough to know what to ask after two or more failed incidents. One would think…or am I giving these people more intelligence than is due?
Once learned, twice burned…remember? How many times would you give this incompetent (nice guy…) BEFORE he is responsible?
Shade, specific locations, etc., are all moot if the guy did not do his job up front!
This entire discussion centers on an inept manager…not anything else. The guy simply did not know how to do his job.
Hate to see him in charge of a Nuclear Arsenal…wait, Bush said it was Nuculer…I must be wrong. Miss those days of Bush-isms…where has the comedy gone?
July 18th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Hey Kim,
Totally agree that the rules of language place the most common or probable definition first — in relation to the others — so there can be close seconds — complexion itself has 5 definitions, 4 of which are not considered archaic. and the second one is
appearance; aspect; character: ….”His confession put a different complexion on things.” (thanks to dictionary.com)
OK – so maybe that doesn’t help much at all.
I guess the point is this — look at the amount of discussion an ambiguity on this blog alone regarding whether the act committed was racist or not — I guess I feel good in that it is not cut and dry — the owner did not say “get out because you’re african american.” (although some are proposing this, it really doesn’t seem to bear up when you look at all the facts)
i feel bad because in the news this morning is a legal complaint was filed by black police Philly police officers complianing about blog posts to a site by white philly police officers — the reports say that they have watched this go on FOR 10 YEARS but waited until the Huntingdon Valley pools incident to file it — if it is wrong it should be set right — we should not wait for the “politically correct moment”
10 Years? Blows my mind.
July 18th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
John G…totally agree. Why the hell did these officers wait so long? Credibility is lost when someone stays silent over issues that have supposedly been happening for YEARS!!!!
This does not make sense. The pool thing is silly as well. Everything was compounded by bozos…therefore everything comes out bozoified…so to speak.
New word: Bozoified You saw it first here folks. I have it Registered as a Trademark…you need to pay me $10,000 every time you use it. Ok,ok, I hear the outcry now… only $1,000.
I just joined a BATHTUB CLUB…it is open to me and qualified females only…!!!
NO BUSLOADS OF KIDS PLEASE!!!!
Why doesn’t the club set aside time (tax break?) for the kids groups…ONLY? Maybe this is not possible, but there must be an hour or so when this could be done? Just looking for solutions…for the kids…all of them. We lost track of what was important…not preceived or actual racism…the KIDS are the ones who are suffering here.
Let Habitat for Humanity build such needy children pools for the summer…or let our government set aside a few BILLION to go directly to THE PEOPLE!!!!
The damn Wall Street banks don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves…MAKE THEM DO SOMETHING THAT WILL HAVE A DIRECT AND POSITIVE RESULT on the children of this nation.
We need a Peace Corps for the USA!!!!
July 18th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
The guy went through this TWICE before, and you DON’T BLAME HIM???.
I assume all of the contracts were set up well before the first group ever came to the pool.
Also, when I read the article originally, I took it as the other groups were dis-invited at the same time. I know it says before, but I took that as JUST before. I also originally took it as the other groups did not even come one time – but were disinvited before ever coming.
Looking back at the article (whcih Im not sure has not been “updated”) Im not sure why I took it that way.
—–But, regardless, it would make sense that things were set up with the 3 groups before any group had come for its first time.
July 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
By the way… I havnt seen any info on this, but I SUSPECT Pool Club Director is NOT this person’s full time job.
A pool club can be run like the PTA or something, where the club members nominate someone for “president” and “treasurer”, etc. This might not even be a paying job… and very likely not a full time job.
July 18th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
@John G. – You’re right, no one really knows how he (the club president) meant it, only how we’ve understood it to be. Who’s right?
Now, about those cops waiting 10 years. That is utterly ridiculous! In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and use JayDub’s new word, “Bozoified!” WTH?!!!!!
July 18th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
@CynG – Well, heck. If it’s not his full time job, what the heck does he care — about the kids?
July 18th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Therin lies the rib, bub…
Bozos to the left of me, Bozos to the right …here I am…stuck in the middle…
OR…how can he be two places at once if he is really nowhere at all…?
Something tells me something tells me…
This is the problem!!!! A PART-TIME BOZO…by any other name…Bozette.
I feel for the guy…he thought he was getting into a nice, easy position, working for the club, probably getting free membership….then…
KIDS FROM HELL Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3!!!!!
I really do not believe he is racist…just inexperienced dealing with touchy issues. At least he is not rapping about “Hoes” and “Killing Whitey” or “Offing Pigs” like rappers do.
Blatant racism? Without a doubt. The outcry was short-lived at best…one does not have to wait long before a new violent incident is in the news with raooer violence as a headline.
Where is the black community? Are we to assume that they have given up out of fear?
What about the BLOODS and CRYPTS???? In what world is this acceptable? LATIN KINGS?
MEXICAN DRUG GANGS???? White Supremacist groups (much less populated)?
Our USA is being taken over by home-grown and Mexican terrorists. Same effect as radical Muslims…destroying American society.
I sure hope our President understands the danger we face…he is a smart man…I hope he acts swiftly and with an iron fist…we must regain control of our peaceful society…for everyone to enjoy.
July 18th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
JayDub, you’re showing your age now. I don’t think rappers have made songs about “killing whitey” for a long time. I would dare to say that it’s been over 20 years since something like that was made. Now, they still degrade women, which is why I don’t listen to it.
As far as the Bloods and Crips, I think they are still active out there in California. The Black community has given up, it’s just an uphill battle. Especially when it comes to rap. That’s a profitable venture for the record companies. Do you think they’ll roll over that easy and stop recording it? I think not!
July 18th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
@James Wagner – Hey JayDub, I missed this comment.
Yep 113! It was 109 today, but now it’s raining but it’s still HOT!
July 18th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Where are the Temps and Four Tops when we need them? OOPS…not a totally good example…
But you get the point…nice music with good messages. In fact, Sly and the Family Stone had probably the best messages of any group ever…Everyday People, A Family Affair, etc. Unfortunately Sly had a bit of a problem…
So, what is the answer? Seems we are caught in a “Circle Game” to quote Joni Mitchell…great song…YouTube.
No way out? Are the poor always going to be poor? Are we to have drug problems forever? Will violence win out over peace?
I want to go back to Woodstock…where everyone was nice. Sigh…
My age? I am a very young 60…go to the gym 5 times a week…twice today (cardio for 45 minutes, and weights later in the day). I am a bit of a enigma…
Life has left its scars to be sure, but I am still a peaceful soul inside…trying to cope with a world gone crazy.
Oh well, think I am going to “Put the Lyme in the Coconut” and drink it all up…
Anyone watch HULU??? It has GREAT old Alfred Hitchcock episodes…he was a master.
Plus…new TV shows…and …..ROCKY and BULLWINKLE…which was a cold-war satire in disguise.
Have fun all…keep cool…in all meanings of the word!!!!
July 18th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
109 and raining? Mass steam bath anyone??? Worse than Miami!!!! At least in Florida one can jump into the ocean…even though the water temp is 85 degrees in the summer!
July 19th, 2009 at 6:03 am
Cyn G,
Re: the going through this two times before — I think what happened was that these groups of kids were set up prior (like pre-season) and then the visits to the club occured — so maybe the club was seeing how each one went and determining whether it was an issue — admittedly, not a GREAT way (trial and error) to find out, but I guess I give the club credit because you have to remember — in the backdrop here, Philadelphia is closing pools this summer due to budget shortages — so a lot of these kids would have no where to swim otherwise.
I think a lot of us sound like we would like to see bad deeds punished — not honest mistakes — it is just ferreting through things that becomes tough.
I like James Wagner’s idea of having some of the Wall Street and AIG Execs TAKE THEIR BONUSES AND BUILD SOME POOLS FOR THESE KIDS
*******
Please don’t throw anything but it’s going to be 84 in the Philly area today…..
July 19th, 2009 at 6:03 am
kill whitey? what’s next? here come de fuzz?
July 19th, 2009 at 6:35 am
@John G. – Hey John G. Nah, it’s all about sexually explicit lyrics now, or getting money or what they spend money on. They’ve moved on from talking about police:–)
84. How nice OR is that a sticky 84?
September 23rd, 2009 at 1:57 pm
I see that the swim club was fined $50,000 for looking out for their best interests. This must make the Sawyers very happy. Congrats
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:34 pm
@Dusty – Dusty! Long time no hear from! I did not know this – thanks for the update. That’s wonderful news:–)
September 24th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
As you can imagine I have been polluting other websites with my views on this topic but I cannot manage to stay around very long before being deleted. Haven’t figured that one out yet. However I never fail to get a strong reaction from many angry readers and it has become nothing short of hilarious. Trolling on this topic has become so much fun. People can become such easy prey. Glad to see that you never let me bother you though. I was impressed.
Funny thing is there are many white people who share my views but would never have the gall to spill them all over the internet. The only ones you hear from are mostly the ones who object. The ones who agree with me usually do not bother to post to spare themselves of possible embarassment. Funny how I never let that stop me though.
Anyway I no longer care . I knew the club was going to face some kind of disciplinary action so they might as well just sweep it under the rug.The one thing I have discovered is that I have been able to extend these topics and make them much more interesting through peoples own outrage, turning everything into a riotous exchange. East to get their goat I guess. But it’s been fun. Anyway, Take care. See you on the next go around.
September 25th, 2009 at 9:27 am
@Dusty – Take care Dusty!
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:53 am
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March 4th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
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